Real Presence
Posted by Remy on April 8, 2009
To believe that the Bread in the Supper becomes the flesh of Jesus -in the tran/con substantive sense- is to believe in the reincarnation of Jesus.
To believe that the body of Jesus can be locally present is to deny that He has a body like man.
To believe in the reincarnation of Jesus all over the world is to erradicate the need for unity. For if Jesus’s flesh comes to each of us individually there is no need to ascend into heaven and commune with Him and with the whole history of saints through the power of the Holy Spirit.
When really the Eucharist de-centers us, not the Lord; we do not do it for our sake, it is done for the sake of the world.
[This post is not a denial of Real Presence, but a challenging to a type of Real Presence]
8 Responses to “Real Presence”
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Carne Levare 
joshgibbs said
“To believe that the body of Jesus can be locally present is to deny that He has a body like man.”
You, apparently, have a thorough knowledge of what ressurected bodies can and can not do.
Might you also say, “To believe that the body of Jesus actually ascended into heaven is to deny He has a body like man”?
Remy said
Having a body means being in one place a not another.
Josh said
As in the blood of Christ is in the cup, not under the carpet the priest is standing on.
I suppose your argument makes sense when coupled to the idea that the Church is not the actual body of the Christ.
Uncarnational. That’s the word.
Remy said
O Josh, you are a tricky person…
Let’s not equivocate on the word “body”.
But since you mentioned it, the tran/con substantive view also diminishes the relationship of the Church and the bread.
Josh said
Ha ha! In the dog-eat-dog world of theological arguing/BSing, only people who have lost an argument accuse others of equivocating! It is the rhetorical likeness of tipping over your king in a game of chess!
*Josh does happy winners dance/accepts a commemorative Greg Bahnsen Secretly Gnostic Achievement Worldview Award dinner plate feauting Remy’s airbrushed face*
Remy said
You’re a funny guy, Josh. But what do you call someone whose responses are nothing by vampings for the audience?
Neither of us believe that the eternal Logos took no body but the church spread out all over space and time. Jesus had a body. It is also true that the church is His body. The church is also the bride. Would you like to win any awards by arguing that Jesus’s body has girl parts? Or that He marries Himself?
We both believe in Real Presence, you just do the math a different way than I do. If you would like to dispute my math you’re welcome to it or if you can defend yourself from the things I mentioned even better.
joshgibbs said
Rems,
The Church is the body of Christ only insofar as She consumes the Body of Christ. The devouring and the marrying are one in the same act, as the priest of Ungit describes, you fox.
Christ’s Real Presence is in the Church because His Real Presence is in the Church. It is simple, yet mysterious.
Jesus doesn’t marry Himself, but the math gets complicated as the Church is brought into the Triune fellowship, especially so far as the Eucharist is concerned. Christ remains Other, and yet We are made into Christ, and yet we consume Christ. Let us not be Muslims or Mormons. Truth is not absolute, Truth is communal.
Truth shares
and defers
and defines
Truth
by
He Who Never Claims To Be Truth.
Although maybe you can point me towards some good Protestant poets who can explain your point in a more satisfying way? (kckckckchhhh)
Remy said
I agree 100% with what you’ve said. I don’t deny Real Presence. I deny your Hitler haircut.